“You have to give a shit.
It’s actually really simple…”
— Rachel Yang, Chef and Owner
Rachel Yang, Chef and Owner of Joule and Revel
Since 2007, Rachel Yang and husband Seif Chirchi have built successful restaurants based on a wildly creative vision that combines their shared love of bold, unexpected Asian flavors with classic, rigorous technique. Their food is beloved by seasoned, adventurous diners and often considered a revelation by newcomers eager to expand their palates. The couple’s work is consistently acclaimed and recognized, including four James Beard Award nominations for Best Chef Northwest in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020; and Outstanding Chef 2022. Rachel was just named to the State Department Kitchen Cabinet and American Culinary Corps, a Diplomatic Culinary Partnership through the James Beard Foundation.
Excerpts from a conversation at Revel on an afternoon in January 2023
When Seif and I first started cooking, we met working in a restaurant in New York City. And even back then, opening a restaurant wasn't even quite a dream. I don't know why it wasn’t. Whether it was being a female thing or still feeling like a foreigner in a different country. When I started cooking and was a line cook for a number of years, my dream was to become a sous chef. And I feel like this is kind of the whole CEO syndrome for females, that they don't really think about becoming a CEO, but they're thinking about becoming like a secretary or vice president. I don't know why I thought being a chef wasn't even an attainable thing. I was like, “I want to be a sous chef, I can be a really great support system for other people.” But when I got offered to be a chef at a couple places ... it was like, “Wow, like, we are actually doing things that we have always dreamed about.” Actually, I think that dream only came when I met Seif and partially because I have another person and we can support each other.
What does hospitality mean to you?
Hospitality is actually giving a shit; about what people feel, caring about how people feel. You are providing food, drinks, or accommodations or whatever that people need; however, being hospitable is that you actually care how people receive all of what you're giving … a big transition that we have learned as a restaurant,, especially for last five years or so, of really shifting that idea: “what do we make or what kind of menus?” But being in a place where you’re offering hospitality to people, they feel good about everything they're experiencing. That kind of becomes a whole full circle of life. What you're offering basically equals how they're feeling. I think it took me a long time, seven or eight years, to realize that it's a little bit more than just cooking that’s required. It's about the lights, the music, the ambiance, the chairs, because it's about basically the holistic experience you're providing to someone more than just food. It took us a long time to get out of the line cook mentality and becoming more than just a chef but an owner or … basically a host of the show,
Was there a specific turning point or was it a gradual awareness?
I think, to be honest, I think there's a lot that happens as you know more and do more in this industry. I tell line cooks that, “Hey, when you're first starting a new station, you will not be able to see what a line cook next to you is cooking, you will not be able to see how customers are eating, you will not be able to see the servers, because you're so focused on learning your basic mechanical steps.” And I think that it just takes a long time to master that in this industry in order for you to feel like, “okay, I kind of got this. I feel like I can take a breather and then look up” … it takes a long time for you to feel like, “okay, like whatever happens, I feel like I have an answer.” That's the biggest thing about being an operator and being a chef and owner is that you are a part of the solution team. … I can actually think about what the consequences of all those answers and solutions that you provide. And then you’re really able to think about the recipients’ point of view.
Do you feel like you have come to a point in your career where you're able to be more comfortable not having all the answers?
Having answers doesn’t mean that you know everything, but that you are able to find the solution or know how to go there. So, it's not about knowing a destination but the path {to get there}. For instance, do I know everything about cooking? The answer is: absolutely not. Do I know how to basically make everyone happy who comes here? I absolutely do not. So, it's not knowing exactly what the perfect or the absolute answer is to a question, versus doing this will get us there. Doing this will get us a little closer.
Being hospitable is caring how people feel about the food they are eating. Food is not an absolute thing, meaning everyone's taste buds are different, how they perceive what they are eating; do they have any relationship with this ingredient or any past experience; are they feeling nostalgic about this or not; and all those things determine how they will feel about this moment. We know we can never…hit the nail on the head but our job is finding the path of, what will make the situation better, getting closer and closer to what people are feeling and experiencing that day.
Absolutely. You’re never going to be able to make every single person happy, but you can start by trying to understand what their expectations are. What are people expecting when they come into Revel today?
I think what people are expecting when they go out to eat in general is: was it worth it? They want it to be worth their time. And I think that, oftentimes, that time also translates to pricing. That's always one thing, as an owner/operator, we always think about when people are coming to our restaurant, Revel, is understanding what are they looking for. Revel is basically a Korean fusion restaurant so people are coming with an expectation of something a little bit Korean, something a little bit different. So it has to meet that expectation, otherwise they'll be like, “oh, like I was looking for like pizza.” and then we will never make them happy.
Do people’s expectation of Korean fusion match what Revel offers? Is this still something you find yourself having to explain?
I think the whole idea is that you don't want to be misrepresented. There is always labeling- in magazines or Yelp or Google for instance, you have to click on their given taglines. So you click on Korean, you click on American, and you know, it's kind of the same thing as surveys to say you're whether you're white, Hispanic, Asian, etc… but then like, our kids are always like “Other”. Okay, do they know what that means? How do we fit ourselves into those categories? The problem with this “Others” option, this fusion, or whatever it is, that people have their own definition of what that means. So it's really hard to be represented in a way that people have the same understanding of those taglines. When those things don't match, it makes it really difficult. It might be a wrong statement to say that the food that we're doing is authentically Korean. But if I say the food we’re doing is authentically my [Rachel’s] food, who is Korean. I think authenticity these days is misused for a lot of restaurants. I know that Google is transitioning into a search [that is] less focused on categories, but searches the dishes themselves, so that it's giving a little bit more insight on what is actually being served. This gives restaurants [the ability] to be uniquely who they are instead of always trying to fit in those categories.
Do you remember when you realized that cooking would be a major part of your life?
I don't think it was about the food itself. I think it was the sense of belonging and community. I came to the states when I was 15 and I lived in my relatives house and went to school, and I never felt like I belonged here. I'm very much an introvert. I remember when I was younger, thinking, “how do people make small talk?” Going through my teenage years being in a totally different environment and not speaking the language fully. What I loved about cooking was that, when you work at a restaurant, you as a person may be disposable, but you as a position is indispensable. This is a kind of community where I belong. You're forced to hang out and talk to the person who works next to you on the line. It may not even be full on small talk but it's getting the orders, or like, “Hey, do you have your potatoes” or “Do you have this set up ready to go?” It put me into a forced relationship that I have to be part of, and I love it, because I don't have to make a choice or make an effort like I'm always needed. That process sets up communities, so that belonging kind of came with this food as a vessel, because I don't have to actually speak too much. I know if I’m doing a good job because it shows right here- it's very tangible. This steak is cooked medium rare, this sauce is not broken, this salad is nice and perky. It shows the quality of things that represent me without having to be eloquent. That's how I got into cooking and then, later, the Korean food that I'm cooking is what makes me who I am. Food really found me, because it established me as Rachel Yang the chef and Rachel the person.
You shared, when we first started talking, that it was your partnership with Seif that made you feel like you could dream bigger. Do you feel like you’ve hit your stride?
Once you leave the kitchen, it's really hard to be grounded. Without that connection, it's really hard for you to feel that everything's okay. And I think that it took at least 10 years for us to feel any sense of security. In the restaurant industry there's not really a retirement plan. There's not necessarily a great 401 or pensions or anything like that. You have to always live in the moment. So it took us almost 10 years to be like, okay, no matter what, we are not going to starve. There are definitely a lot of ups and downs and times in this industry where you're like, “I'm doing okay, right now but I have no idea what's going to happen in the next 10 years”. It doesn't mean we have a stockpile of money, but we feel very secure that it's gonna be okay, no matter what. We've worked really hard. And we trust in our own selves and in each other that we're gonna be okay.
How did you know it was time to step away and close Trove and Revelry?
Financial reasons are always the biggest one. But the second thing is: when you realize you are no longer creating that hospitable environment, no matter what kind of food that you think you're doing. When you are dedicating your energy to one place, you realize that you are sort of losing the connection with other places. I think it was still too much of me in every single restaurant. When you get yourself involved in every single decision making [process] and then everything is all revolving around you, you feel that you can’t step away. When you're trying to make your restaurant unique then it loses the opportunity to multiply because uniqueness cannot really multiply and franchise. There's a reason why people latch on to one concept and simplify and streamline it.
There have been a series of very public closures and announced closures, like Willows Inn and Noma. Do you think that’s an indication of a specific direction the industry is taking? What do you think the future of fine dining looks like?
The reason for fine dining was always a pushing of the envelope. The whole idea is that this is a place where there was no shortage of labor, no skipping on expensive items, whether it's the equipment or the space or the staff. I think that’s why it's hard to say if there is [a shift] because I do feel like some different forms will come back, because wealthy people will always have money, and they will always want to spend like $1,000 on their food and there will be a restaurant that will cater to that, and that will be considered fine dining. I do think when you talk about fine dining what has shifted is no longer doing everything at the expense of your people, because there is definitely a value on people that cannot just be done as an expense for serving others.
What do you hope comes next?
20 years ago, when I started cooking, it was still very Eurocentric, white male dominated. Things have been shifting to more multicultural and people from all different backgrounds, all different races … things have gotten so interesting and so diverse. The spectrum of authenticity- whether it is super authentic, as in a single dish that is exactly what you get in that country or multiple variations and a mix of styles. There's so much diversity and a range of things that people are doing right now, that you can go and experience and it gives the diner so many choices. And that's really awesome.
And I think that there's more of that to come and it's going to evolve into its own form of fine dining. Like, archipelago Filipino- it's a tasting menu with one seating and it's fine dining but it's not your typical Noma-style fine dining. The switch is what hospitality means to people. Fine dining is no longer a white cloth napkin, tablecloth and you sit down for three hours; it's a story of really connecting through food that gives you more of a warmth here [in your heart], then in your head.
What’s the best piece of advice you’ve received?
Never say no. Always say yes. I always tell my cooks, “When you're trying something new, or learning a new station, just put the pan down on the fire.” People always have the hardest learning curve when they're going from the pantry station to becoming a saute cook. And then what I always tell people is: “Just put the pan on the fire.” Once you start, there are so many support systems once people know that you have started. But if you don't start, no one knows that you are trying to go somewhere or do something and therefore, be able to help you.
What's your panic meal? When an unexpected guest shows up at your house, what are you serving?
Two things that we like to do. First, some sort of taco because we always have tortillas in the freezer or the fridge, plus anything that people make on their own. It’s always easy. All you have to do is have some sort of proteins, and just take out your produce compartment and just chop everything up and then put it out there with your pantry sauces and you're done.
The other would be hot pot; because you just bring up the broth, and I have these pouches with dry fish inside, so you can make a stock really fast. Then just grab some frozen dumplings or some ramen noodles and veggies, and if you have any meat put it out there and then just cook! It was so easy but still makes it look like, “Wow!”
